Toys, pram, out!

It seems that Roger Pielke Jr is having a bit of a rant on Twitter about an interview Michael Mann gave about the recent Congressional Hearings. He accuses Michael Mann of lying about him and also suggests that he might file an ethics complaint to Michael Mann’s university. I, initially, did not notice because, like many others, I’ve been blocked by Roger. If you do want to see the tweets, they’re archived here (scroll down a little). Roger’s made a bit of a habit recently of complaining about his treatment, and I have been a little sympathetic. I also thought some of what he presented at the Congressional Hearings was reasonable. However, I also think he brings much of this upon himself by being rather selective in what he presents, and by not being careful enough in how he does so.

However, the bizarre thing about this particular situation is that, if you listen to the interview (as I have), his name is not mentioned at all. The only relevant comment is at 6:56, where Michael Mann says (H/T Eli)

There are three witnesses that actually are sorta in the fringe of scientists who do not accept the science of climate change or the reality of the impacts of climate change.

The three scientists being referred to here are Judith Curry, John Christy, and Roger Pielke Jr. It seems like a pretty mild kind of comment to me. It even says sorta in the fringe, rather than definitively in the fringe. Roger may dislike that this is how he is perceived, but it’s my impression that this is indeed how many do perceive him. I don’t think he was called by the Republicans to give evidence at the hearing because he is regarded as a mainstream voice. I realise that he claims to accept the science of climate change, but if someone has to explicitly tell people what they accept, then maybe they aren’t making that clear enough when they actually discuss the topic publicly.

Ultimately, people are entitled to make judgements on the basis of what someone else says, and are entitled to express those views publicly. They also don’t need to change their mind just because the other party disputes the judgement. If Roger really dislikes being regarded as being sorta in the fringe then he should probably try harder to make it clear that he isn’t sorta in the fringe, rather than ranting about people who characterise him as being so. The irony of this whole situation is that the one person who might have a valid complaint is Michael Mann against Roger Pielke Jr, for publicly suggesting that Michael Mann has behaved unethically.

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18 Responses to Toys, pram, out!

  1. Pingback: The East is Red – Stoat

  2. John Hartz says:

    ATTP: I concur with your assessment.

    PS – If Rober Pielke Jr can’t stand the heat, he should get the heck out of the kitchen.

  3. Pielke cites almost exclusively from the IPCC, so, the IPCC’s fringe?

  4. John Hartz says:

    ATTP: Are you channeling Greg Laden, or is he channeling you? 🙂

    Roger Pielke Junior, I forgive you for this one thing, Greg Laden’s Blog, Apr 9, 2017

  5. TE,
    No the IPCC is not fringe.

  6. izen says:

    Perhaps RPjrn thought the committee had asked him to testify to balance out Christy and Curry. He thought he was on the side of the mainstream, and Mann’s interview has granted the Damascan revelation he is not seen as on the side of the Angels.
    Especially if you accept an invitation from Lamar Smith.

  7. Michael Hauber says:

    ‘sorta on the fringe’. Does that mean he is on the fringe of the fringe? And if so is he on the mainstream side of the fringe? Or the crackpot side of the fringe?

  8. Mal Adapted says:

    OP:

    Ultimately, people are entitled to make judgements on the basis of what someone else says, and are entitled to express those views publicly. They also don’t need to change their mind just because the other party disputes the judgement. If Roger really dislikes being regarded as being sorta in the fringe then he should probably try harder to make it clear that he isn’t sorta in the fringe, rather than ranting about people who characterise him as being so.

    This is the weakness of the “free speech” AGW-denier rhetorical tactic. In a modern liberal democracy, people like RPJr, or David Whitehouse, are entitled to propagate the most risible nonsense their imaginations can devise, within the limits of libel and commercial fraud; likewise, they are entitled to bear all the lacerating scorn an outraged audience of the reality-based can muster in response. And the AGW-denier is solely empowered to make the public excoriation stop: all he has to do is stop spreading nonsense.

    Speaking to deceive and confuse the public may not be punishable by law, but it’s still shameful under democratic norms. In the actual culture of science, it’s a violation of fundamental precepts. “Peer review” punishes deception and especially self-deception with penalties ranging from artfully crafted scorn and derision in real time, to being ignored for all time.

    Butt-hurt professional pseudoskeptics are appealing to the public image of the genteel culture of science as a sympathy pitch; scientists, at least, aren’t that easily fooled.

  9. The Very Reverend Jebediah Hypotenuse says:

    What Mal said:

    Butt-hurt professional pseudoskeptics are appealing to the public image of the genteel culture of science as a sympathy pitch; scientists, at least, aren’t that easily fooled.

    Seriously, if RPJr and Curry spent half as much energy doing good science as they spend to play the tattered old victim-card and defend their sorry reputations, well, they might not get invited to the next Congressional denialist gong-show, and thus avoid the awful ‘abuse’ that is criticism.

    RPJ’s toy-tossing is just the academic version of this…
    https://climatecrocks.com/2017/04/10/spoonfeeding-for-climate-deniers-science-is-like-broccoli/

    And it’s getting very, very, boring. Junior needs a nap.

  10. John Hartz says:

    ATTP: Michael Mann has posted a link to this OP on his Facebook page. It may cause an uptick in readership and commentary.

  11. russellseitz says:

    ” I don’t think he was called by the Republicans to give evidence at the hearing because he is regarded as a mainstream voice. ”

    Roger has been acting like little more than an academic martinet for a decade, excuding mainstream republicans along with plain vanillla climate scientists from a blog published just down the road from Boulder.

    Color him provincial.

  12. Mal Adapted says:

    Russel:

    Roger has been acting like little more than an academic martinet

    Heh. Russell takes a principled stand against academic martinets.

    Sorry Russell, just yankin’ ur chain.

  13. Mal Adapted says:

    Thanks, Rev.

    WRT my previous “within the limits of libel and commercial fraud”: Thankfully for the reality-based, it is within those limits to baldly assert that the AGW-denier is a Dumb Ass:

    A statement that the plaintiff is a “Dumb Ass,” even first among “Dumb Asses,” communicates no factual proposition susceptible of proof or refutation.

    Thankfully for the over-matched AGW-denier, the choice to disengage is his.

  14. russellseitz says:

    Far be it from me to dictate what Mal may think; Roger Jr., OTOH, has a Moncktodelingpolean tendency to dispatch e-mails announcing matters unwelcome in his blog are unfit for comment outside it.

  15. Susan Anderson says:

    Moncktodelingpolean … Priceless!

    As for victim bullying, it’s a crashing bore and does a lot of harm. Cowards!

  16. MarkR says:

    Turbulent Eddie, logically that doesn’t follow. You can make fingers arguments by selectively citing a non-fringe source.

  17. Bernard J. says:

    An excellent opportunity to link to Bluegrue’s post here:

    https://bluegrue.wordpress.com/2012/09/13/dune-quote-for-bernard-j/

    It’s worth the effort to read through, especially if one is familiar with and appreciates the work of Frank Herbert.

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